Marinades are a waste of time . . .

[JaKe]

So says NYTimes Food Writer Mark Bittman:

http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347

[Tyler Hopper]

Post by JaKe
http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347

1st of all, he writes for the Times so WTF does he know about Q?

2nd they call it "Easy, Delicious Barbecue" and then proceed to talk about
grilling.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Post by JaKe
http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347

He is correct about tenderizing; it does not make it tender. Flavor is
another story. The marinated shrimp I made last Sunday were a big hit with
everyone.
Ed
***@snet.net
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

[Andy Williams]

Post by Edwin Pawlowski
JaKe

Post by JaKe
http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347

He is correct about tenderizing; it does not make it tender. Flavor is
another story. The marinated shrimp I made last Sunday were a big hit with
everyone.

He is dead wrong about marinades not penetrating meat. I challenge
anyone to marinate chicken in Cornell sauce overnight and claim it has
not penetrated:

____________________________

Cornell Marinade for Chicken
____________________________

For 5 halves:

1/2 cup cooking oil
1 cup cider vinegar
2 tbs. salt
1 1/2 tsp. poultry seasoning
1/4 tsp. white pepper
1 egg

Beat the egg, add the oil and beat again.
Add the other ingredients and stir.

[Reg]

Post by Andy Williams
He is dead wrong about marinades not penetrating meat. I challenge
anyone to marinate chicken in Cornell sauce overnight and claim it has
____________________________
Cornell Marinade for Chicken
____________________________
1/2 cup cooking oil
1 cup cider vinegar
2 tbs. salt
1 1/2 tsp. poultry seasoning
1/4 tsp. white pepper
1 egg
Beat the egg, add the oil and beat again.
Add the other ingredients and stir.

This is high enough in salt to behave like a light brine, which
definitely will penetrate.

[Paracelsus]

Post by Edwin Pawlowski

Post by JaKe
http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347

He is correct about tenderizing; it does not make it tender. Flavor is
another story. The marinated shrimp I made last Sunday were a big hit with
everyone.
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

A vinegar based marinade will tenderize meat, but you'll have to let it
soak for at least 24 hours to notice any effect. My favorite is plain
Italian dressing on London Broil. Put the LB's in a glass bowl big enough
for the meat to be mostly covered by the dressing and keep it in the
fridge for 24 hours to five days prior to grilling.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Post by Paracelsus
A vinegar based marinade will tenderize meat, but you'll have to let it
soak for at least 24 hours to notice any effect. My favorite is plain
Italian dressing on London Broil. Put the LB's in a glass bowl big enough
for the meat to be mostly covered by the dressing and keep it in the
fridge for 24 hours to five days prior to grilling.

Not quite true. Marinades should contain acid, could be vinegar or citrus,
etc.

Acids denature or soften the meat. Tenderizing occurs when the muscle it
broken, bruised, or torn.

You may want to read "Marinades" by Jim Tarantino. ISBN 0-89594-531-2
Ed
***@snet.net
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
.

[TFM®]

Post by JaKe
http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347

Who the fuck gives a rat's ass what anybody from NYC says?

Jake, you're an ass with a capital "S"


TFM®

[Kent H.]

I too think he has his head in the universal inferior orifice. He
doesn't and should separate marinading from brining. It is true surface
marinades don't tenderize and we mostly don't marinade for that reason.
Marinades certainly affect the flavor of steak, and more for seafood
regardless of how far it gets into the substance of the meat. However
brining certainly does affect flavor of the meat through and through. I
think it does something for the structure of fowl and pork, though
probably only by increasing the water content. I wonder if anyone has
tried brining with papain, or tenderizer. As well saltpeter does
something which affects the tender or nontender character of the meat.

Post by JaKe
http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347
--
JaKe, Seattle
"The main thing that we do is to rock your socks off."
Tenacious D

[Reg]

However brining certainly does affect flavor of the meat through and through.

I agree that given enough time brining penetrates thoroughly whereas
marinating will not no matter how much time is involved.

I wonder if anyone has tried brining with papain, or tenderizer.

I'm not a big fan of enzymatic tenderizers. They "tenderize" in
the sense that they render the meat kind of mushy, even when used
for short periods. I've never gotten good results with them.

I prefer to buy meat that doesn't require that much tenderizing in the
first place. Maybe that will change someday when I'm retired and need
to be more cost conscious.

As well saltpeter does
something which affects the tender or nontender character of the meat.

On this I disagree. Nitrate/nitrite cures effect color and
flavor but not tenderness.

[heyyouthere]

Post by Reg
On this I disagree. Nitrate/nitrite cures effect color and
flavor but not tenderness.

I think it makes it more moist and juicey, (and flavorful)
But, notsomuch "tender". Suttle difference there.

[Jack Curry]

Post by Reg
On this I disagree. Nitrate/nitrite cures effect color and
flavor but not tenderness.

I've been corning my own briskets and smoking them into pastrami recently.
Reg, you're quite right, cures don't change the texture of the meat. Flavor
is added with use of salt and pickling spices and tenderness is achieved by
barbecue-process cooking. Low (relatively) and slow.

Jack Curry
-Kent's an idiot-

[Reg]

Post by Jack Curry
I've been corning my own briskets and smoking them into pastrami recently.
Reg, you're quite right, cures don't change the texture of the meat. Flavor
is added with use of salt and pickling spices and tenderness is achieved by
barbecue-process cooking. Low (relatively) and slow.

I'm with you. I'm now completely addicted to pastrami. It's
a fair change from what I used to be addicted to, so it's
a good thing :)

[Mike]

Post by Jack Curry

Post by Reg
On this I disagree. Nitrate/nitrite cures effect color and
flavor but not tenderness.

I've been corning my own briskets and smoking them into pastrami recently.
Reg, you're quite right, cures don't change the texture of the meat.

Flavor

Post by Jack Curry
is added with use of salt and pickling spices and tenderness is achieved by
barbecue-process cooking. Low (relatively) and slow.
Jack Curry
-Kent's an idiot-

What actually does the corning part play in a brisket?
is pastrami usually corned?

[Reg]

Post by Mike
What actually does the corning part play in a brisket?
is pastrami usually corned?

This is one of those word origin discussions that I usually stay out of,
but I think I'll throw in my 2 this time.

"Corned" means cured with salt...

The best explanation I've heard is that chunks of salt used to be called
"corns" in Ye Merry Olde England or someplace, so it's a reference to salt.

[Jack Curry]

Post by Reg

Post by Mike
What actually does the corning part play in a brisket?
is pastrami usually corned?

This is one of those word origin discussions that I usually stay out of,
but I think I'll throw in my 2 this time.
"Corned" means cured with salt...
The best explanation I've heard is that chunks of salt used to be called
"corns" in Ye Merry Olde England or someplace, so it's a reference to salt.

Reg is right again. Corning is a salt cure for meat, used to preserve prior
to the advent of refrigeration. Pastrami is corned beef that's been
seasoned, usually with coriander, black pepper and garlic powder, then
smoked.

Jack Curry

[Reg]

Post by Reg

I wonder if anyone has tried brining with papain, or tenderizer.

I'm not a big fan of enzymatic tenderizers. They "tenderize" in
the sense that they render the meat kind of mushy, even when used
for short periods. I've never gotten good results with them.
I prefer to buy meat that doesn't require that much tenderizing in the
first place. Maybe that will change someday when I'm retired and need
to be more cost conscious.

To follow up on my own comments, here's an outstanding post
on egullet showing a picture of what pineapple juice will do
to meat after three hours. It's not a pretty sight.

There's also a bunch of other interesting factoids for
us meatheads.

SCIENCE OF THE KITCHEN
by Jack Lang

http://forums.egullet.com/index.php?showtopic=40548